Posts by Juan Viejo2

11

What JW.ORG Needs - Live Chat Feature

by Garrett in

jw
friends

someone with influence needs to persuade the gb to add a live chat feature to the website.. i was strolling through the mormon site out of curiosity and noticed they had a live chat option.

golly, i can't pass this up.

i decided to talk to jake and spencer.

Juan Viejo2

I mentioned that JW.org needed a discussion area or comments like YouTube during my phone call to Watchtower last week. Was brushed off by the young woman who was handling my call. My guess is that this comes up nearly every day, but no way does the WT want to create a two-way conversation on their pride and joy website or streaming video.

57

Please Welcome me

by Sofia Lose in

jw
friends

have lurked here for many, many years.

female, latina, middle-aged, born-in, 3rd generation jw, northeast usa.

my fate is to continue to play the game 'till death do us part because the very strong and tangled web of friends, family, business, etc.

Juan Viejo2

Sofia - my websites get many emails from JWs just like you. Some are elders and continue to do their jobs as expected and never let on that they don't believe the WT bullshit at all. Breaking up families is often too traumatic for one person to do. You see this same approach taken by individual Catholics and "practicing" Jews - because if they didn't they would have no family, no friends, no home, no job, and no resources or family inheritance. They would become a nobody to everybody they know.

"Shadow Elder," a New York resident who has been discussed here several times and submitted a post to Ex-JW.com, was just such a person. He did eventually share his feelings with one of his sons. I have not heard from him in years, so my guess is that he and his son continue to pretend to be active and committed JWs just to keep their family together (Shadow told me that his wife would leave him and never let him see his kids again if he ever admitted to being an apostate.)

So Sofia - do what is right for you. But know that you have a very wide selection of friends here and can find excellent support on many ex-JW discussion websites. You will have far more friends than you can imagine who will not criticize you or call you a hypocrite for doing what you feel you have to do. At the same time we all hope that someday you will be able to break free and move away completely.

JV

41

How to Wear a Pinkie Ring, by Stephen Lett, Governing Body Member

by Oubliette in

always the fashionista amongst the governing body members, mr. stephen lett recently showed us how even an older man can display a certain swagger, a certain je nesais quoi that says, "i'm one of the anointed, and you're not!".

he does this in so many ways, but the one i want to draw our attention to is the way he rocked the theocratic fashion world with his wearing of a very manly pinkie ring in a recent wtbts video.. - -.

stephen lett of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses demonstrating how to wear a pinkie ring.

Juan Viejo2

While we are on this subject...

Has anyone been to a Kingdom Hall or convention when a speaker went rogue and went off the script? I have heard rumors that this has happened in the past, but have no idea exactly when, where or why. I have heard that the sound system mysteriously shut down in the middle of a talk at a District convention some years back when a COBE went way off script for a few minutes. Wasn't there (obviously), but would love to know if that ever really happened or if someone here has done that type of thing.

If it did, and I had been there, I would have stood up and given him a standing ovation and a cheer.

And then I would have been tossed out onto the parking lot and probably given a couple of kicks to the ribs.

JV

41

How to Wear a Pinkie Ring, by Stephen Lett, Governing Body Member

by Oubliette in

always the fashionista amongst the governing body members, mr. stephen lett recently showed us how even an older man can display a certain swagger, a certain je nesais quoi that says, "i'm one of the anointed, and you're not!".

he does this in so many ways, but the one i want to draw our attention to is the way he rocked the theocratic fashion world with his wearing of a very manly pinkie ring in a recent wtbts video.. - -.

stephen lett of the governing body of jehovah's witnesses demonstrating how to wear a pinkie ring.

Juan Viejo2

No Good Deed - I wouldn't get your hopes up about Lett getting kicked off the Governing Body anytime soon. He'll need to string out a lot more rope before he can hang himself and embarrass the Governing Body beyond the point where they will continue to put up with him.

Fred Franz was this same style of kook. The difference is that Franz wrote his own material, where (especially at conventions) Lett reads the same talk that any other speaker reads at other less important convention locations or in foreign languages.

I have no idea who actually writes the scripts and talks for these streaming videos, convention talks, or other special presentations. I'm sure there is a staff of writers who do this kind of work and then prepare standard formats with notations for the speakers to use (emphasis, gestures, pauses). I know from several sources that lesser speakers must present talks exactly as written and there are script checkers listening and verifying that every word and notation in the script is presented as noted. Any deviation from a prepared script can result in loss of privileges and removal from future speakers lists. Whether this applies to Governing Body special scripts written by the GB members themselves - I don't know. Maybe someone can enlighten me.

This practice has reportedly been extended down to the half-hour "public" talks (that term really does not apply any longer) given in Kingdom Halls. In the past, brothers would take the outline and add notes and their own emphasis to certain sequences, often adding scriptures or side remarks to flesh out the talk and make it less boring. I've heard that is not allowed any longer. While being on the public speakers list is quite an honor for elders and MSers, they can be pulled in a blink if they try to get creative in any noticeable way. This obviously does not apply to GB members and their towel boys.

JV

54

New "donation" arrangement begins to FAIL

by Tech49 in

jw
friends

so here we are, almost a year into the "new" congregation donation arrangement.

and its beginning, as was predicted, to fail miserably, and to have direct negative consequences on the poor sheep.. let me give you a little experience, directly from our congregation of about 80 publishers.

back in may, after reading the letter about the "new" arrangement, the elder body decided to "donate" the extra funds on hand to wt, as directed.

Juan Viejo2

NoGoodDeed and Outlaw - From what I am hearing donations in Kingdom Halls are down considerably. Emptying the local congregation bank accounts and declaring all Kingdom Halls to be property of the Watchtower Society and not the local congregations seems to have backfired badly.

But remember that most JWs are truly sheep and are willing to be sheared and herded by the dogs of the Watchtower organization.

One of my contacts in a local Kingdom Hall mentioned that everyone in his hall seems exhausted and joyless. The general attitude is to just get through the meeting and then get home to watch whatever was taped off the cable TV box. Although everyone says they are having family study nights, in reality very few really do. As one brother told him, "my family study night is sitting on the toilet scanning the study Watchtower on my cell phone. My wife glances at it, but really doesn't 'study' it. After all, what's to study and why? It's all the same shit warmed over and rotated through every 12-18 months. But if the elders ask, both my wife and I assure them that we faithfully have a study night. My wife drops a buck or two in the box and so do I about once a month. I really don't feel like they deserve a dime from me. But I can't go anywhere, I have too much to lose."

I think that describes the feelings of the majority, and might even include a lot of elders as well. There really is no love or enthusiasm in JW Land right now.

JV

36

Talking to support and contacts at WT HQ

by Juan Viejo2 in

i have a story to share about my calls to wt ny hq this past week.

i was quite surprised by the level of disinterest and lack of concern from the two contacts that i spoke to.

rather than jumping right in and sharing my experience - and perhaps "poisoning the well," i'd like to read experiences of others on this forum who had the urge or need to call the wt contact number.. btw - mine was not an apostate rant or overly critical of the wt and was presented in a friendly and helpful way.

Juan Viejo2

Listener - I really have no idea who Inform Ant is or why she has decided to make everyone who is part of AAWA a target for her abusive and profane personal attacks. But, as I've stated many times before, the USA is a free speech country (for the most part) and Ms. Ant has every right to do her thing as she wishes. What she says about me or my friends is really a non-issue for the most part because those who know us, even those who do not support what I do with AAWA or any of my websites, know that I am mostly harmless. I've met some people in my life that were a lot more threatening and abusive than Ms. Ant could ever be - and she just does her thing on YouTube for a few dozen occasional viewers. I must admit that she can be quite entertaining at times. She is not, and to my knowledge never has been, an AAWA volunteer or directly connected to AAWA in any way other than being a rather harsh critic.

As far as my call involving the young woman - I thought that she was trying to be helpful, but was very reluctant to engage me in conversation - as compared to "Joel" the computer support person. You'll note that I tried to pause and give her a chance to respond, but she seemed to limit herself to occasional "uh-Huh" in an agreeable but very restrictive way. It was almost like she was under orders not to engage with callers directly or express her opinion.

As you may have noticed, I made it clear from the very beginning that I was not a JW, but rather a critic and webmaster of several "critical JW discussion sites." I also made it a point not to get into a discussion of JW beliefs or policy, although I did sneak in a very brief reference to "child abuse." I did challenge her on the postal mail issue as I have a shoebox full of UPS and USPS delivery confirmations to the Watchtower, but not as single response.

Even after that, she still promoted snail-mail as their preferred communication. Very easy for them to just pass unopened envelopes through a shredder.

After my experience with these two calls, maybe I can come up with a better strategy for the next time to make for a more interesting exchange. We'll see...

And yes, "rebel8" is correct about the recording of telephone calls for most states (there are exceptions). What most existing "no recording" laws allow is for one party to a call to make a recording (businesses, emergency services, government offices, and newspapers all do this as general policy for training, documentary, and security reasons). The recording of a call ("tapping") by a third party without the knowledge of the persons on the call is prohibited in several states. There are exceptions to one party recording (California being one of them) - but New York is OK. A free downloadable guide is available online called "Reporter's Recording Guide" that covers and describes all of these laws state by state. I have a copy of that PDF report, but have lost the link (try Google search). Look for "Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press."

JV

36

Talking to support and contacts at WT HQ

by Juan Viejo2 in

i have a story to share about my calls to wt ny hq this past week.

i was quite surprised by the level of disinterest and lack of concern from the two contacts that i spoke to.

rather than jumping right in and sharing my experience - and perhaps "poisoning the well," i'd like to read experiences of others on this forum who had the urge or need to call the wt contact number.. btw - mine was not an apostate rant or overly critical of the wt and was presented in a friendly and helpful way.

Juan Viejo2

The audio for the two phone calls I made to Watchtower HQ are now available. Sorry for the delay, but I've been plagued with computer troubles ever since Outlaw waved his juju over my previous comments and put his curse on my productivity. Rule #1 - don't critique anyone on this site, even if they are not on this forum and they are batshit crazy. You will pay dearly ...

The first is 13 minutes long and was handled by a fellow in the JW.org technical support team. While he was helpful and pleasant enough, he sounded like he was late for lunch or had to finish a hot project.

The second was actually the first call (was initially mishandled and disconnected during a double transfer). There was a double transfer on this one as well. While the young woman that handled my call was pleasant enough and agreed with me at regular intervals, she avoided any direct answers to my questions - so I just turned the call into "story time." This call was 25:30 long.

I'm sorry that the calls are both so one-sided, but that is typical of support desks as opposed to sales desks. Support hates to get involved and sales won't let you get a word in and is always going for the close. Audio was only edited to delete long waiting times and personal contact information.

You can find the audio players at the bottom of the article linked below. I have been damned with computer problems due to Comcast maintenance (or lack thereof) in our area and my own projects requiring heavy duty processing of critical programs. I hope to have the calls up on YouTube by the weekend.

Feel free to poke around the rest of the website, even though it has been awhile since it was updated. Some of the graphics were trashed during a Wordpress upgrade last year and I have been replacing them as time allows.

Here's the link to the article:

http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/phone-calls-to-bethel-jw-org-email-and-contacts/

JV

36

Talking to support and contacts at WT HQ

by Juan Viejo2 in

i have a story to share about my calls to wt ny hq this past week.

i was quite surprised by the level of disinterest and lack of concern from the two contacts that i spoke to.

rather than jumping right in and sharing my experience - and perhaps "poisoning the well," i'd like to read experiences of others on this forum who had the urge or need to call the wt contact number.. btw - mine was not an apostate rant or overly critical of the wt and was presented in a friendly and helpful way.

Juan Viejo2

NoGoodDeed - I don't think I have been singled out for abuse any more than anyone else that occasionally visits this forum. It would probably be best for me to hold my water and share my point of view on this subject with you by private message (PM) or you can contact me through one of my websites, ex-JW.com, WatchtowerWatch.com, or InsidetheWatchtower.com.

One last thing before I close down for the night. I will release the audios within the next few hours, but I have not decided yet whether to post them on one of my websites and then link to them - or to post them here as MP4 or YouTube downloads. At this very moment my desktop is rendering a series of videos for AAWA.co and for Barbara Anderson's website.

I agree with you that I should have just waited and not even mentioned the fact that I had these audios available, but I felt (wrongly, it seems) that I could get the conversation moving in a direction that would either validate or negate my experiences dealing with Watchtower's support desks. For some reason a phone call to the Watchtower by InformAnt and my reaction to it became the central point of the discussion rather than the Watchtower and its management of phone inquiries.

My bad...

JV

36

Talking to support and contacts at WT HQ

by Juan Viejo2 in

i have a story to share about my calls to wt ny hq this past week.

i was quite surprised by the level of disinterest and lack of concern from the two contacts that i spoke to.

rather than jumping right in and sharing my experience - and perhaps "poisoning the well," i'd like to read experiences of others on this forum who had the urge or need to call the wt contact number.. btw - mine was not an apostate rant or overly critical of the wt and was presented in a friendly and helpful way.

Juan Viejo2

JYD and Steve2 - I agree that my style is not like Inform Ant's, but I have learned over the years that to start off by terrorizing some poor volunteer who is just doing the job they have been assigned does not elevate you or your cause. It becomes a case where the winner seems to be the one who can shout the loudest, overwhelm the conversation, and belittle the efforts of the other person.

I understand that my style is not Inform Ant's style, nor is it Outlaw's. I'm not saying they are wrong - we just have different styles and different approaches to dealing with people we disagree with. Inform Ant has put out videos that have trashed me and many others involved with anti-Watchtower activism - and she has never met or talked to any of us to know who we are or what we are really like. Her style is just to rant and rave and make accusations whether they have any basis in fact or not. And that's OK - it's a free country, I believe in free speech, and this forum (thank you Simon) allows for that expression.

We all love Outlaw's style and cutting humor, but that does not mean I have to agree with everything he puts out. That does not diminish my respect for him or his comments, but some I simply ignore and move on. In the overall scheme of things, I'm sure that Outlaw and Inform Ant may have more fans and higher status than I, but that's OK with me. I do my thing, and they do theirs. I can live with that arrangement very easily.

JV

36

Talking to support and contacts at WT HQ

by Juan Viejo2 in

i have a story to share about my calls to wt ny hq this past week.

i was quite surprised by the level of disinterest and lack of concern from the two contacts that i spoke to.

rather than jumping right in and sharing my experience - and perhaps "poisoning the well," i'd like to read experiences of others on this forum who had the urge or need to call the wt contact number.. btw - mine was not an apostate rant or overly critical of the wt and was presented in a friendly and helpful way.

Juan Viejo2

Outlaw - you win. I withdraw. Obviously you are someone here with enough credibility to judge who's right or wrong. I defer to your judgement. I lose. For whatever reason you feel that Inform Ant's rants and rages should not be critiqued for what they are, then so be it.

I guess you are right. I got what I asked for.

JV